Why the Marvel Cinematic Universe feels empty

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  • Opublikowany 15 paź 2018
  • What makes a fictional universe good? In this requested episode of Overrated, Vox’s Phil Edwards explores the past and present of fictional universes to try to figure it out.
    Subscribe to our channel! goo.gl/0bsAjO
    Want to read more? Check out Sean Howe’s book about Marvel: www.amazon.com/Marvel-Comics-Untold-Sean-Howe/dp/0061992119

    And explore Tommy’s Universe:
    thetommywestphall.wordpress.com/the-master-list/

    Fictional universes and crossovers have been around long before the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The Green Hornet radio show had a crossover with the Lone Ranger that kicked off the trend. In comics, the Marvel Universe started long before Stan Lee was at the helm.

    But these crossovers have a problem: They can privilege business relationships ahead of storytelling immersion and really interesting universes. As the Tommy Westphall Universe shows, crossovers often become a map of business decisions rather than of integrated fictional stories, and that leads to worse stories.

    This problem plagues the MCU as well. When Marvel engineers crossovers, they aren’t thinking about a universe transformed by superheroes - they just want more quips, explosions, and cash. Or at least that’s Edwards’s argument - do you think the MCU works?
    Overrated is a series that takes a look at the things we all know - the books, the trends, and the ideas that have become iconic - and answers the question: “Why is this so famous"?
    Vox.com is a news website that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Check out www.vox.com.
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Komentarze • 22 963

  • Vox
    Vox  6 miesięcy temu +940

    You know that one font every comic book uses? Phil Edwards explains where it came from, and how it became so enduring: bit.ly/2EoOE6a

    • Riguy
      Riguy 3 dni temu

      +Sasuke all he did was reference other movies and when he finally got to the mcu points, they weren't even points

    • Scott Andersen
      Scott Andersen 5 dni temu

      Sasuke the video has so many dislikes because he takes so long to get to the claim he makes in the title and he doesn't acknowledge the facts against his argument. he uses spider man homecoming as a way to make claims against the MCU and at the end says that's what the MCU should be like. the video is factually incorrect and frankly a waste of time.

  • Gabe Taylor
    Gabe Taylor 2 godzin temu

    "Half of these people could disappear and there'd still be too many characters"
    MEGA OOF

  • Bat Max 444 Bat
    Bat Max 444 Bat 3 godzin temu

    There's a ton of toxic MARVEL movies fans un teh comments :'(

  • Bat Max 444 Bat
    Bat Max 444 Bat 3 godzin temu

    Someone had to say it!! :)

  • Hansen Horst
    Hansen Horst 5 godzin temu +1

    This IS a steaming pile of clickbait
    Shame yourselfs for real
    You should just SHAME yourself
    Great work by doing nothing worth noticing
    How can you call yourself journalists?
    You write, read, cut and post this video without any knowledge about the MCU or movies in general
    This is one great example for misinformation
    Just massively disappointed

  • The Diamond Emeяald
    The Diamond Emeяald 6 godzin temu

    Oof

  • JR Swish
    JR Swish 11 godzin temu

    So... Why is mcu overrated?

  • Darien Hardy
    Darien Hardy 14 godzin temu

    This is a bad video

  • Ed Taylor
    Ed Taylor 15 godzin temu

    I cant wait for the movie where every person ever in the mcu is interviewed on what they think on the heros, it will make the world so rich!!

  • STH
    STH 15 godzin temu

    Soooooo we're talking about the MCU here, right? So why is 90% of this video about the Westfall theory and the Marvel comics universe. Which, might I add is 10000000x more incoherent. Is it a business thing? Yeah. Sure. But to say that Iron Man post credit scene was a "universe exposition dump" is ridiculous.

  • Max Deview
    Max Deview 19 godzin temu

    All the triggered npcs In the comments

  • ally may
    ally may 19 godzin temu +1

    So you want me to hate MCU... Thankyou next

  • Tinkdoggathanthe32nd
    Tinkdoggathanthe32nd Dzień temu

    Disney makes them that’s why they’re trash

  • Alizardd
    Alizardd Dzień temu

    This video is mega g a e

  • Just Jessi
    Just Jessi 2 dni temu

    yo. he doesnt even mention that tarentino got the idea for a shared universe from watching mallrats. this video sucks.

  • Alexander Gutierrez
    Alexander Gutierrez 2 dni temu

    This is literally the worst evaluation of anything ever

  • Avi Arad
    Avi Arad 2 dni temu

    Lol the dislikes

  • Zeus
    Zeus 2 dni temu

    Who came here to see the dislike ratio again? 🤣🤣

  • Sergio Mora
    Sergio Mora 3 dni temu

    i knew it, littlefinger is alive

  • Express Gaming
    Express Gaming 3 dni temu

    I think that the universe where half of the entire population is dead is the one where I’d be most affected

  • Aang Pearce
    Aang Pearce 3 dni temu +1

    You should probably delete this video, it's embarrassing.

  • Riguy
    Riguy 3 dni temu +1

    What a steaming pile of clickbait

  • Evil Smile邪惡之笑

    darn
    so many fillers and it didnt even reach 10 minutes

  • William O'Sullivan
    William O'Sullivan 3 dni temu +1

    I am so shore everyone ho liked this video is just a DC fan who didn't even watch the video

    • John
      John 2 dni temu

      +William O'Sullivan no it doesn't, it shows that vox is wrong. Don't be so delusional.

    • William O'Sullivan
      William O'Sullivan 2 dni temu

      You got me there but the fact that this video has more dislikes than likes shows that marvel is better than DC!

    • John
      John 2 dni temu +1

      you could say the same for every marvel fan disliking the video, too

  • William O'Sullivan
    William O'Sullivan 3 dni temu +3

    I don't know if you noticed this but this is a stemming pile of click bate

  • Article 12
    Article 12 3 dni temu +2

    someone pressed the like button
    me: wait, thats illegal

  • Austen _
    Austen _ 4 dni temu

    The like to dislike ratio is overwhelming

  • Diego DeLaO
    Diego DeLaO 4 dni temu

    U said that the corporate decisions were abt ratings rather than telling a good story, if ur comparing both of them u will realize that Marvel's been telling a story through all 20+ movies
    Also you're gonna tell me the relationship building spanning from homecoming to infinity war wasnt compelling or caps journey from the end of ww2 to the day and age he's had to adjust to, or even thors redemption isnt compelling storytelling
    Another thing, do u not realize these movies and shows in the universe cant directly just be abt how they take place in the same universe otherwise it devalues the movies and shows, they need to be independent and have their own meaning and when time comes for their humility to show when it matters most, thats what the crossovers are for

  • Tony Stark
    Tony Stark 4 dni temu +2

    *sees like to dislike ratio*
    This... does put a smile on my face...

  • Luke Gomer
    Luke Gomer 4 dni temu

    How can you possibly talk about Infinity War as if it hasn't 100% earned it's position to bring together all these characters. How can you just pretend 20 movies of world building never happened and act as if Marvel have just randomly thrown out a cash grab movie. Absolutely ridiculous. I am fuming, this is the most uneducated video that has been picked out of the old 'video topic hat' and put together in a mere few minutes by some intern who hasn't watched an MCU movie through it's entirety and believes hes seen enough.

  • Luke Gomer
    Luke Gomer 4 dni temu

    I. AM. SCREAMING!!!!!!!!

  • Tyler Winchester
    Tyler Winchester 4 dni temu

    Shame. Shame. Shame. Shame. Shame. Shame.

  • The Elite BTROX
    The Elite BTROX 5 dni temu +1

    You make the point that Bruce Banner's photo in Homecoming is cool but not a transformed universe (in order to further the argument that the mcu feels empty)... Despite the fact that several characters from the other films play prominent roles in the story. Including Happy Hogan, and Iron man. You can't use Homecoming as an example of an empty and disconected universe when THE OPENING 5 MINUTES is a recap of another movie in the mcu from the point of view of our main character. Civil War and The Avengers movies are the main catalysts for the film's entire plot. If Civil War hadn't happened Peter probably wouldn't have met Iron Man and if The Avengers never happened, Adrian Tomes wouldn't have become the Vulture. These are more than just offhand references and easter eggs, they're entire plot points in the story. Even if they're were only touched upon briefly their effects are felt and their importance is great. Thats what makes a transformed universe. Pictures of Bruce Banner in Peter's science class or a photo of one of the Hollowing Commandos in the principal's office simply seek to further flesh out said transformed universe. And that's only using Homecoming as an example. The plots of Black Panther, Thor Ragnorack, and Infinity War (just to name a few) are all heavily influenced by events in previous movies. So yes just having a photo of another character in one movie isn't a transformed universe. But everything else I just mentioned, IS.

  • MrKevinTaco
    MrKevinTaco 5 dni temu

    How the hell would I want a crossover with SW and Marvel? It would make no sense, this video makes no sense

  • MrKevinTaco
    MrKevinTaco 5 dni temu

    This is one of the most idiotic things I've seen in my life

  • ChadMillerMusic
    ChadMillerMusic 5 dni temu

    After waiting 6 months and rewatching this, I can confidently say; you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about

  • GOD THE GAMER
    GOD THE GAMER 5 dni temu

    Look at that like ratio

  • The Yuri Theorist
    The Yuri Theorist 5 dni temu

    Congratulations you aged yourself Vox, you shouldn't have touched something you know nothing about especially of you're going to say it's bad and do the most lazy form of research you could possibly do

  • Andrew Rodrigues
    Andrew Rodrigues 6 dni temu

    Boring af

  • Abel alarco
    Abel alarco 6 dni temu

    This video is sooooo boooooooooooriiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnngggggggg

  • Which Cat
    Which Cat 6 dni temu

    the mcu can be overrated, but this video did not make ANY points to back that claim

  • Natalio Fernandes
    Natalio Fernandes 6 dni temu

    MCU is the best saga ever made

  • Natalio Fernandes
    Natalio Fernandes 6 dni temu

    Hahahahahahahhajajajjajajahahajahhahah

  • Landkrabben
    Landkrabben 6 dni temu

    You suck hairy balls dude.

  • Thanosman
    Thanosman 6 dni temu

    that the MCU universe is still in development like cracks me up it's further if it's far from the truth the MCU start with Iron Man and now we have what almost like 50 something characters or so in the on-screen together I'd hardly call them right for that point

  • Neph Themis
    Neph Themis 6 dni temu

    Now, time to unsubscribe. : )

  • Flying Popcorn Juice

    October 15th is now Opposite Day on the calendar.

  • Prabhat Raikwar
    Prabhat Raikwar 7 dni temu

    MARVEL FANCUNTS ARE TRIGGEREDDDDDDD!!!!!!

  • J.B. Forbes
    J.B. Forbes 7 dni temu

    ...and yet the theaters showing MCU films are full, really full, bursting at the seams with customers saying, "Shut up and take my money", full. You are definitely entitled to your opinion, but you've failed to make your argument with me and (at the time of posting this comment) over 105,000 other viewers.

  • Jacob Votava
    Jacob Votava 7 dni temu +1

    Unsubbing because this is a steaming pile of clickbait.

  • SOme ONe
    SOme ONe 7 dni temu

    It feels empty because there is no build up to any of these character clowns with 'powers'.

    • foop
      foop 4 dni temu

      There is no buildup? Yes, you are titled to your opinion, but it can also be wrong. There is so, so much buildup to their powers, origin stories, which build up the characters into 3-dimensional people, in which the audiences have been so invested in that hundreds of millions of people are hyped for the next film.

  • ObiWan Kenobi
    ObiWan Kenobi 7 dni temu

    It’s not overrated...............
    All of the movies so far are awesome so why not make so many more

  • Porter Orvetti
    Porter Orvetti 8 dni temu

    Okay this entire video is just BS. Your main point is that Disney wants to sell you stuff. That is correct. Does that make the movies bad. Of course not! There’s some really good marvel films out there that your not being fair too. Also all the clips of the toys and stuff in the MCU are showing that the characters are also popular in their world. It’s free advertising sure, but it’s not like the whole movie is an ad.

  • Da Golden Llama
    Da Golden Llama 8 dni temu

    This vidie is complete bs and you lied this is a steaming pile of clickbait

  • Tucker Tooley
    Tucker Tooley 8 dni temu

    Most of the mcu is a way to intruduce you to characters. That's why these problems exist and space made things way worse for connecting storylines together.

  • Anna Sanderson
    Anna Sanderson 8 dni temu

    Of course if DC or marvel broke copy right laws and added Hawkeye to justice league or aqua man in infinity war no one would care even DC and marvel

    P.S. this is a joke comment I know he mentions legal ownership

  • Kade Nielsen
    Kade Nielsen 8 dni temu

    Wow, you really are a group of idiots.

  • Abioticspy
    Abioticspy 8 dni temu

    Oof

  • Nova Star
    Nova Star 8 dni temu

    Wait... X-Men?
    Logic?
    *laughs like that girl from GoTG when she hears Tazerface's name*
    There is no logic in the MCU or X-Men.
    And I believe they are in the same universe, or in a type of Alternate universe as there has been talk for DPool to meet the Avengers

    • foop
      foop 4 dni temu

      The MCU has a better timeline than the X-men, similar to a floating timeline.

  • Nova Star
    Nova Star 8 dni temu

    Yes. I do agree with easter eggs - that sometimes isn't enough to say "these are joined and connected universes"
    But. You used Spiderman Homecoming scene.
    Little background info.
    Tom Hollands, Peter Parker, was first introduced in Captain America: Civil War, therefore, Pete is in that same universe. He is introduced along with T'challa, aka, The Black Panther, who is now also connected, and his father, T'chacka, who was killed by Bucky, there fore connecting Wakanda to Bucky and therefore connecting Wakanda and the people within to the Avengers as T'challa's motivation to join the Leipzig fight in the first place was to Avenge his father (pun intended)
    Now back to Spidey.
    Yes. A picture of Bruce is a nice touch - but really, you should be pointing out how; One: that picture was a direct scene from A:AOU and there was no POSSIBLE way they could get it.
    And two: there are no pictures of Tony, or Howard.
    The Avengers masks are also a nice touch, showing how integrated the Avengers are in peoples lives.
    And if that were it, some silly easter eggs, I could maybe see where you were coming from.
    But that isn't it.
    Peter and Ned clearly talk about the Avengers and Peter states that he is "Technically and Avenger"
    This movie also explains his new suit, Tony gave it to him before the fight.
    And, not only is Happy in the movie. Multiple times.
    But Tony is as well. Like. He is kinda a HUGE character in the movie.
    For instance, Tony is the reason Vulture becomes The Vulture.
    The Vulture's whole suit came from the alien tech from the first Avengers film.
    And, Tony is in most of the movie.
    He is in the little scene with the camera
    He says goodbye to Pete.
    Calls Peter at a point.
    Helps Peter only seconds later.
    Takes away Peter's suit AFTER helping him.
    Then gives Pete back the suit and invites him to be an Avenger.
    Peter is directly the reason Tony is marrying Pepper.
    You make it seem that no character is linked and its silly hand off comments that brake it apart.
    But they're linked.
    Steve Rogers, aka Captain America, was best friends with James Buckanan Barnes, aka Bucky Barnes, aka, The Winter Soldier.
    Steve and James know Howard Stark, Tony Stark's father, therefore linking the three.
    It was shown that the Tesseract was then thrown into space where Carol Danvers, aka, Captain Marvel (though not really) found the Tesseract and gave it to Nickolas Jonathan Fury to hide.
    Therefore linking all of them.
    Nick hid the Tesseract without telling SHIELD he did, where it stayed hidden until Avengers.
    Next Thor.
    Thor Odinson, son of Odin and the God of Thunder, has an adoptive brother, Loki.
    Thor was sent to earth, or Midgard, after he fought with his father.
    He there met Jane, Darcy, and Erik, then linking Erik and Thor for the first Avengers.
    He also, briefly, had a run in with SHIELD and Hawkeye, aka, Clint, and I believe Natasha, but I can't remember.
    Connecting them as well.
    Tony Stark is already connected to Cap because of Howard, and this is shown in greater effect in Ironman 2, as his father had a prototype of Caps shield.
    Tony is also introduced to Natasha Romanoff and Phil Coulson through these movies as well as Nick at the end of one of them, which wasn't an "exposition dump" that term describes a long, drawn out dialog by one character on main parts to the story, that wasn't one.
    Peter Parker was also introduced in Ironman, he was the little kid with the Ironman Mask when the drones attacked.
    Bruce was connected to Steve as he was trying to recreate the supersoldier DNA but created the Hulk.
    Tony also KNOWS about Bruce, as shown in Avengers.
    Scott met Sam in Ant Man. Connecting him to both Steve and the Avengers.
    Wanda and Bucky were both HYDRA victims.
    Bucky killed Tony's parents.
    I could go on with DPool. But he doesn't really obey the laws of reality.
    But its hard to say "they aren't joined" when Peter was fighting FOUR of the Avengers in Civil.
    And the excuse?
    Non of them were bad!
    Hank has made it clear he doesn't like Stark.
    Non of the Avengers really cared for what was going on in Homecoming except Tony.
    Ragnarok was on a different planet.
    Carol is in space through these movies and they aren't in any life threatening danger.
    All the characters are connected and do not fall apart.
    Going back the the easter eggs.
    Its clear that the Avengers are big in Peter's universe.
    Taking one look at Peter's suit shows that.
    One glance at the picture of Bruce or the silly Avengers masks.
    But also one glance at the movie's plot.
    Bad guy needs money for his daughter.
    Stark and the Avengers say its too dangerous.
    Bad guy doesn't like Stark.
    Bad guy wants to kill Stark and prove he's better than the Avengers.
    Spidey is the only one who wants to fight this guy.

  • Billy Idol
    Billy Idol 8 dni temu

    Song? 2:33

  • Amit Kumar
    Amit Kumar 8 dni temu

    You need to get your mind checked for even calling it overrated.

  • Leo Rautenberg
    Leo Rautenberg 8 dni temu

    "Again and again" shows one probably fake example

  • Andrew Park
    Andrew Park 8 dni temu +1

    This video has over a 100k dislikes, and it satisfies me to see that it does.

  • retro 1055
    retro 1055 9 dni temu

    Why is this on my reccomendation i hate it

  • Tanveer Ahmed
    Tanveer Ahmed 9 dni temu

    This is a pretty ridiculous video

  • ItsPenguin
    ItsPenguin 9 dni temu

    This video gives me such a weird feeling. This guy's talking, but saying nothing at the same time. I sat there for 9 minutes and 38 seconds, and never thought about how bad the video actually was. And it feels... well, empty.
    creepy

  • Nicholas Tyler Brown

    Wtf were you trying to get access with this? This doesn't explain what the video's title states at all.

  • Prince Kashyap
    Prince Kashyap 9 dni temu

    _This video is just an experiment to see if the viewers can understand something out of literally nothing_

  • faldostick123
    faldostick123 9 dni temu

    Have you ever heard of this cool thing called world building

  • F*CK T SERIES
    F*CK T SERIES 9 dni temu

    *when the video has more dislikes than likes...*

  • Daniel
    Daniel 9 dni temu

    Apologies here Vox, but you need to stop complaining about others’ creations, and instead focus on doing something more creative yourself.

  • G R
    G R 9 dni temu

    Pathetic try to get attention. I really like Vox videos but this is a spot on failure.

  • Sockboi _
    Sockboi _ 9 dni temu

    0:16 Why isn't this video just a steaming pile of clickbait?
    Because the video is a steaming pile of crap.

  • jfrader
    jfrader 9 dni temu

    This is wrong. X-Men has less characters, so it's easier. Civil War is the shared battle.

  • Game Pirate
    Game Pirate 9 dni temu

    The problem with this video is that talks about everything else but the topic at hand. The video could have given specific examples highlighting why Marvels storytelling is supposedly empty and dry. They could have addressed the villain problem. There is no specifics here and goes on and on about this comic book and this theory and so on. Talk about the Marvel CINEMATIC Universe dude. Other forms of entertainment have no relation whatsoever. A disappointing video from Vox!

  • Mizzy Cat
    Mizzy Cat 9 dni temu

    I tend to love Vox’s videos, but this video’s just stupid with bad reasoning and comparisons that make no sense. To be honest, this video is very over exaggerated.

  • Harsh Shekhawat
    Harsh Shekhawat 10 dni temu

    Phil Edwards (the video guy) every marvel fan hates you

    • foop
      foop 4 dni temu

      Every film enthusiast hates him

  • juwann lowe
    juwann lowe 10 dni temu +1

    This video essay feels empty

  • Amadou Diallo
    Amadou Diallo 10 dni temu

    Please stop making videos, everyone who viewed this video lost 20IQ points

  • Tiny Rock
    Tiny Rock 10 dni temu

    I was looking for why I think the movies are boring. Come on!

  • RAVI SHANKAR
    RAVI SHANKAR 10 dni temu

    Bullshit 💩💩

  • Matrix Man
    Matrix Man 11 dni temu

    If people don't like crossovers, then why do producer create them?

  • WOMB0
    WOMB0 11 dni temu

    I thought that he would be taking about it the lack of opportunities marvel couldve took to include or Reference more heroes or villains

  • OptimusCam 04
    OptimusCam 04 11 dni temu

    This dude literally repeated that the mcu is overrated like 10 times but never gave any strong facts. Honestly this is one of the worst vox videos I’ve ever seen.

  • Kurious Kat
    Kurious Kat 11 dni temu

    and who are u?!

  • Lorenzo Marsella
    Lorenzo Marsella 11 dni temu

    Dumbest video on YT.

  • Anand Roy
    Anand Roy 11 dni temu +2

    So.. What was the point of this 9 minute long video?

    Nothing.

  • Wolf of the West
    Wolf of the West 11 dni temu

    Yeah...I didn't get this at all. The X-Men movies are an incoherent mess, and the argument didn't make any sense. The X_men universe is good because it allows for decade hoping and tonally different movies? Uh...how is it that the MCU doesn't do that? The MCU is BETTER at that than the X-Men universe.

    And you're point about Jessica Jones was dumb. The point of the merch was that the Avengers are big celebrity heroes after the Battle of New York. Far more references are made to "the Incident," and it's vital to the Daredevil series, as the destruction of the BoNY create the opportunity for Fisk to rise up. It also fueled the fear and hatred that lead the anti-superhuman vigilantes to target Jessica.

  • Gerardo Guerra
    Gerardo Guerra 11 dni temu

    Na.........

  • Bruno Tapia Garcia
    Bruno Tapia Garcia 12 dni temu

    just came to drop a dislike and dip

  • Lord Boneless
    Lord Boneless 12 dni temu

    The points you made were really misleading

  • Hishaam Khan
    Hishaam Khan 12 dni temu

    He has apoint

  • Tilted Maples
    Tilted Maples 12 dni temu

    I don't know how Vox could get a worse like to dislike ratio than some of their political videos, but they achieved it.
    Edit: Grammar

  • Srish Kumar
    Srish Kumar 12 dni temu +1

    This is by far one of the worst videos you guys have made. Did you even watch the movies??

  • Earl Patrick
    Earl Patrick 12 dni temu

    I see what your point is. Profit > content.
    But using X-men was a horrible comparison.
    In addition, ever thought that sometimes its just for entertainment? That you want to get out of your own universe. Thats what movies are for. Its why people go to the theatres. To get you out of your own mind or in this case, your own “universe”

  • craig rivet
    craig rivet 13 dni temu

    I just wasted 10 minutes of my life

  • SpeciamDraws
    SpeciamDraws 13 dni temu

    Oh meh gersh yes finally somone agrees that marvel is over rated.

  • Ethan Pierce
    Ethan Pierce 13 dni temu

    Most your videos are crap about real life. This is crap about not-real life.

  • Auburny Foris
    Auburny Foris 13 dni temu

    Y’all should delete this vid tbh